Maharashtra Elections: Victory of Congress means what? undercover communalization or promotion of regional rhetoric!
[Prologue: This discussion is based on discussion on Recent Maharashtra Election and its reason, impact and repercussion.]
Shishir Kumar Jha
Major Trends @ 11:30 am CON+ 135, SS+ 98, MNS 18, 3rd Ft 12 1.A case where the opposition has handed over victory to Con/NCP thrice in a row something must be terribly wrong with the Opposition. 2.Big story - MNS has 18 seats. expect desertion to MNS... from SS in the Mumbai, Thane and Nashik belt. Raj achieved what he wanted. 3. Final voting %age tally for seats where MNS won would tell us about the mobilisation.
Amit Srivastava
Election results are expected. MNS is congress's child and it paid dividend to it again. Rhetoric often works in Politics. I got the news that MNS is biggest winner within Mumbai.
Shishir Kumar Jha
The theory of MNS being Congress' child is much too convenient for the BJP/SS alliance to excuse their own incompetence. It is clear that SS just couldn't mobilise people for its 'vision' [?] of Maharashtra inspite of a real weak C/NCP governance for the last 10 years atleast. SS could not even contain a green horn like MNS even if one were to go with the conspiracy theory.
BTW, Bhindranwale in Punjab was said to be a child of Congress politics and look at what happened to Punjab and Indira Gandhi.
Amit Srivastava
One day I was reading History of SS; it emerged in same way... xenophobic way. Initially they targeted south Indians, after that north Indians. Later not only SS, but also national parties did the same in Mah. Halting spatial urban facilities was an attempt to curb the incoming migrant population. But they failed miserably. MNS hijacked the same tactics to play once again a rhetoric game. MNS spread this hate in all urban centres of the state.. causing deaths in Nagpur and Pune. This similarity was a bite in SS strategy.
Amit Srivastava
Ignoring all these criminal xenophobic activities was a reward given from congress to MNS.
Same happened in case of Bhindranwala in Punjab; Ms Gandhi wanted to use him against Akali Dal. But he became a threat to nation later. (ref. BBC report)
Shishir Kumar Jha
Not just the nation - what abt. Indira's bodguards. The opportunistic divide and rule behavior by the Congress is not at all un-expected. But calling MNS a child of Congress reduces everything to sheer manipulation which I don't think the ground reality suggests. Congress will now attempt to woo the alienated Maharashtrians [36 seats in Mumbai alone] in a more attenuated way. Watch out for Raj though!
Shishir Kumar Jha
The other interesting poll development is the Third Front [+3 seats], a coalition of several small parties, expects a dozen seats. In the context of Congress' glib claim that its loan waiver for farmers helped get votes in both LS and VS elections - guess the Third front should ask why suicides in the first place. P Sainath of Hindu has written much on this.
Amit Srivastava
Yes Sir, thats also can be termed as political economy of death and hunger. But recently I found (in epw) another fact that muslims vote percentage to congress has increased substantially. Though no one has tried to explain that; but Schhar Comm. has made this impact?
Ishteyaque Ahmad
Its a clear mandate against the HIndutva and separatist ideologies and parties.
Amit Srivastava
That was a bigotry statement Ishtryaque. There is no clear mandate in favour of Muslim-vad either.Be analytical a bit. Hindus doesnt just belong to BJP... congress has done much more for your quoted 'Hindutva'. Babari structure was opened by congress for puja... and many more incidents. But when there is a discussion, you should read the previous statements carefully before making any conclusive statement like this.
Shishir Kumar Jha
I think perhaps Ishteyaque was saying that nationally the major conventional Hindutva plank of BJP and its allies is not working and they are unable to attract voters as yet on other planks. Yes the Congress isn't without its stains but it is ideologically much more flexible. So people aren't buying any more into the older frameworks. But the communal divide may give way to regional divide ...
Ishteyaque Ahmad
Oh dear... its becoming heated debate... getting personal... Can we make a difference between use of communal sentiments, communalism and Hindutwa? Another thing... where is this Muslim-vad? Who are the founders and prophets of this vad? Till now I have heard about Muslim appeasement by pseudo-seculars... then Sachchar Committee report. Can reject the report? We can... But what about the calls of RSS to Muslims to join the outfit? Is it Muslim-vad? The state has failed in safeguarding the interests of all the voiceless people from all the communities. It has failed in providing justice to the victims to all the oppressed. And Muslims are among them. The state has been governed by Congress, Socialists and HIndutva people as well.
Another thing... Congress is losing over 19 seats in Haryana but BJP is also losing 3 seats. In Maharashtra and Arunachal Pradesh its is the Hindutva Parties which are losing significantly. They employed Shivaji and Afzal Khan to create violence in the election evening in Maharashtra... Balasaheb venom was used to polarise hindus. Yet this kind of defeat means a lot.
And I ditto your point all Hindus do not belog to BJP or HIndutva separatists.
Amit Srivastava
Nothing personal.. neither of us (I know about Shishir sir and myself) are political leader. But the point is, we can't just blindly support sectarian politics like the politicians wanted us to do so. They are successful with mass by creating caste and religion divide. But when we talk about mandate, certainly all together thats different from today's result.
While on communal politics, congress got the longest history. Quota in IITs and central universities was recent most part of that plot. Have u looked at Sachhar Comm. report? please read it with secular point of view, it will remind you of Jinnah. But the point is, no one out there to take these crime to masses. One day IBN published its impact on LS election and congress victory. Within minutes that report was removed from their site. I got it as i was luckily online on my twitter. It proved Congress has best control over media. But similar report published in UAE, Canada. I hope you would do some google-research on this matter too. and yes, we must not think to strengthen any of these sectarian politics but still choice is urs.
Amit Srivastava
Ishteyaque bhai, probably this would help in understanding the communal face of congress too:
http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2006/11/30/rajinder-sachar-committee-report-on-muslims-confirms-muslim-vote-bank-politics-hurt-the-nation/
After reading this, you read your statement once again. And let me know if you still think in same way.
Ishteyaque Ahmad
Thanks Amit Bhai, I will read the article for sure... though I have read the Sachchar Committee report and Arjun Sengupta Committee report which clearly shows that Muslims in India are as marginalised as Adivasis... I will send you Arjun Sengupta report.
Amit Srivastava
Oh again a conclusive statement. I have both.. we have discussed it in JNU for three long years.
I am not a politician who got the stake neither and engineer who thinks in Boolean 0 or 1. I have independent thinking much more analytical than these political committees. So, u think Muslim is a homogeneous community and are marginalized including... Shekh, Pathans, Khans and all? and you also think Meena (a ST from Raj) are marginalized and Banias of Bihar are not? Open up and think beyond the personal sentiments. This is what I can suggest. Make me chairman of any such committee; I would prove statistically and factually that Jains (being the richest) are as marginalized as Tribal of Orissa as Sachar and Arjun Sengupta did.
Ishteyaque Ahmad
Dear Amit, I am not a Muslim politician and in my at least 20 years of non-party political life my experiences has taught me not to generalise... I know it very well that no community is homogeneous... keep aside Muslims... even Baniyas of Bihar does not make a homogeneous community... nor the Adivasis of Orissa... Another thing I have learnt that we are living in a political world and each and every action of ours is a political statement. And we have to engage with this political world as creatively as we can... Cursing the political leaders for all the miseries is not going to give any relief to the marginalised and oppressed... Analysis of our actions and words... critical examination of the bureaucracy and judiciary is necessary... and critical but creative engagement with all these are essential... We cannot contribute to the marginalised and the society as a whole with our nehelism... We can ridicule the reports of any commission but cannot change the ground realities... I would like to quote Kabir here... Tera mera manva kaise ek hoi re... main kahta hun ankhan dekhi, tu kahta kagad ki lekhi... main kahta samjhawan hari, tu rakhyo urjhai re... tera mera manva kaise ik hoi re...
Amit Srivastava
Thats what I wanted to say. There is no homogeneous community. Particularity that community, which was ruling before Britishers. All we need is to understand the political motives of such committees. They do all possible attempts to put these committees under carpet; but since these are used for policy making, the critical examination must be publicly done. Best example was Mandal Commission. Falsely analyzed data with just 3 % samples, and still those 3% were not available. And now we see quota everywhere… education, jobs, bureaucracy and judiciary. And who are responsible? Not just politicians only... we are equally responsible for that. we just not only keep quite due to our 'interests' but also we point finger on those who raise question on such motives.
We owe to have a better perspective on such divisive game. If we sing in tune with these political leader, who will seek the truth? If we analyze the facts, there is not a single political party which is 'secular' in same sense when India was born after division. Divisive forces are getting prominent day by day. Undercover ones like congress are more dangerous than obvious one. It is our choice to go blind on them by supporting them or to reveal the reality even at a small level.
Shishir Kumar Jha
Major Trends @ 11:30 am CON+ 135, SS+ 98, MNS 18, 3rd Ft 12 1.A case where the opposition has handed over victory to Con/NCP thrice in a row something must be terribly wrong with the Opposition. 2.Big story - MNS has 18 seats. expect desertion to MNS... from SS in the Mumbai, Thane and Nashik belt. Raj achieved what he wanted. 3. Final voting %age tally for seats where MNS won would tell us about the mobilisation.
Amit Srivastava
Election results are expected. MNS is congress's child and it paid dividend to it again. Rhetoric often works in Politics. I got the news that MNS is biggest winner within Mumbai.
Shishir Kumar Jha
The theory of MNS being Congress' child is much too convenient for the BJP/SS alliance to excuse their own incompetence. It is clear that SS just couldn't mobilise people for its 'vision' [?] of Maharashtra inspite of a real weak C/NCP governance for the last 10 years atleast. SS could not even contain a green horn like MNS even if one were to go with the conspiracy theory.
BTW, Bhindranwale in Punjab was said to be a child of Congress politics and look at what happened to Punjab and Indira Gandhi.
Amit Srivastava
One day I was reading History of SS; it emerged in same way... xenophobic way. Initially they targeted south Indians, after that north Indians. Later not only SS, but also national parties did the same in Mah. Halting spatial urban facilities was an attempt to curb the incoming migrant population. But they failed miserably. MNS hijacked the same tactics to play once again a rhetoric game. MNS spread this hate in all urban centres of the state.. causing deaths in Nagpur and Pune. This similarity was a bite in SS strategy.
Amit Srivastava
Ignoring all these criminal xenophobic activities was a reward given from congress to MNS.
Same happened in case of Bhindranwala in Punjab; Ms Gandhi wanted to use him against Akali Dal. But he became a threat to nation later. (ref. BBC report)
Shishir Kumar Jha
Not just the nation - what abt. Indira's bodguards. The opportunistic divide and rule behavior by the Congress is not at all un-expected. But calling MNS a child of Congress reduces everything to sheer manipulation which I don't think the ground reality suggests. Congress will now attempt to woo the alienated Maharashtrians [36 seats in Mumbai alone] in a more attenuated way. Watch out for Raj though!
Shishir Kumar Jha
The other interesting poll development is the Third Front [+3 seats], a coalition of several small parties, expects a dozen seats. In the context of Congress' glib claim that its loan waiver for farmers helped get votes in both LS and VS elections - guess the Third front should ask why suicides in the first place. P Sainath of Hindu has written much on this.
Amit Srivastava
Yes Sir, thats also can be termed as political economy of death and hunger. But recently I found (in epw) another fact that muslims vote percentage to congress has increased substantially. Though no one has tried to explain that; but Schhar Comm. has made this impact?
Ishteyaque Ahmad
Its a clear mandate against the HIndutva and separatist ideologies and parties.
Amit Srivastava
That was a bigotry statement Ishtryaque. There is no clear mandate in favour of Muslim-vad either.Be analytical a bit. Hindus doesnt just belong to BJP... congress has done much more for your quoted 'Hindutva'. Babari structure was opened by congress for puja... and many more incidents. But when there is a discussion, you should read the previous statements carefully before making any conclusive statement like this.
Shishir Kumar Jha
I think perhaps Ishteyaque was saying that nationally the major conventional Hindutva plank of BJP and its allies is not working and they are unable to attract voters as yet on other planks. Yes the Congress isn't without its stains but it is ideologically much more flexible. So people aren't buying any more into the older frameworks. But the communal divide may give way to regional divide ...
Ishteyaque Ahmad
Oh dear... its becoming heated debate... getting personal... Can we make a difference between use of communal sentiments, communalism and Hindutwa? Another thing... where is this Muslim-vad? Who are the founders and prophets of this vad? Till now I have heard about Muslim appeasement by pseudo-seculars... then Sachchar Committee report. Can reject the report? We can... But what about the calls of RSS to Muslims to join the outfit? Is it Muslim-vad? The state has failed in safeguarding the interests of all the voiceless people from all the communities. It has failed in providing justice to the victims to all the oppressed. And Muslims are among them. The state has been governed by Congress, Socialists and HIndutva people as well.
Another thing... Congress is losing over 19 seats in Haryana but BJP is also losing 3 seats. In Maharashtra and Arunachal Pradesh its is the Hindutva Parties which are losing significantly. They employed Shivaji and Afzal Khan to create violence in the election evening in Maharashtra... Balasaheb venom was used to polarise hindus. Yet this kind of defeat means a lot.
And I ditto your point all Hindus do not belog to BJP or HIndutva separatists.
Amit Srivastava
Nothing personal.. neither of us (I know about Shishir sir and myself) are political leader. But the point is, we can't just blindly support sectarian politics like the politicians wanted us to do so. They are successful with mass by creating caste and religion divide. But when we talk about mandate, certainly all together thats different from today's result.
While on communal politics, congress got the longest history. Quota in IITs and central universities was recent most part of that plot. Have u looked at Sachhar Comm. report? please read it with secular point of view, it will remind you of Jinnah. But the point is, no one out there to take these crime to masses. One day IBN published its impact on LS election and congress victory. Within minutes that report was removed from their site. I got it as i was luckily online on my twitter. It proved Congress has best control over media. But similar report published in UAE, Canada. I hope you would do some google-research on this matter too. and yes, we must not think to strengthen any of these sectarian politics but still choice is urs.
Amit Srivastava
Ishteyaque bhai, probably this would help in understanding the communal face of congress too:
http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2006/11/30/rajinder-sachar-committee-report-on-muslims-confirms-muslim-vote-bank-politics-hurt-the-nation/
After reading this, you read your statement once again. And let me know if you still think in same way.
Ishteyaque Ahmad
Thanks Amit Bhai, I will read the article for sure... though I have read the Sachchar Committee report and Arjun Sengupta Committee report which clearly shows that Muslims in India are as marginalised as Adivasis... I will send you Arjun Sengupta report.
Amit Srivastava
Oh again a conclusive statement. I have both.. we have discussed it in JNU for three long years.
I am not a politician who got the stake neither and engineer who thinks in Boolean 0 or 1. I have independent thinking much more analytical than these political committees. So, u think Muslim is a homogeneous community and are marginalized including... Shekh, Pathans, Khans and all? and you also think Meena (a ST from Raj) are marginalized and Banias of Bihar are not? Open up and think beyond the personal sentiments. This is what I can suggest. Make me chairman of any such committee; I would prove statistically and factually that Jains (being the richest) are as marginalized as Tribal of Orissa as Sachar and Arjun Sengupta did.
Ishteyaque Ahmad
Dear Amit, I am not a Muslim politician and in my at least 20 years of non-party political life my experiences has taught me not to generalise... I know it very well that no community is homogeneous... keep aside Muslims... even Baniyas of Bihar does not make a homogeneous community... nor the Adivasis of Orissa... Another thing I have learnt that we are living in a political world and each and every action of ours is a political statement. And we have to engage with this political world as creatively as we can... Cursing the political leaders for all the miseries is not going to give any relief to the marginalised and oppressed... Analysis of our actions and words... critical examination of the bureaucracy and judiciary is necessary... and critical but creative engagement with all these are essential... We cannot contribute to the marginalised and the society as a whole with our nehelism... We can ridicule the reports of any commission but cannot change the ground realities... I would like to quote Kabir here... Tera mera manva kaise ek hoi re... main kahta hun ankhan dekhi, tu kahta kagad ki lekhi... main kahta samjhawan hari, tu rakhyo urjhai re... tera mera manva kaise ik hoi re...
Amit Srivastava
Thats what I wanted to say. There is no homogeneous community. Particularity that community, which was ruling before Britishers. All we need is to understand the political motives of such committees. They do all possible attempts to put these committees under carpet; but since these are used for policy making, the critical examination must be publicly done. Best example was Mandal Commission. Falsely analyzed data with just 3 % samples, and still those 3% were not available. And now we see quota everywhere… education, jobs, bureaucracy and judiciary. And who are responsible? Not just politicians only... we are equally responsible for that. we just not only keep quite due to our 'interests' but also we point finger on those who raise question on such motives.
We owe to have a better perspective on such divisive game. If we sing in tune with these political leader, who will seek the truth? If we analyze the facts, there is not a single political party which is 'secular' in same sense when India was born after division. Divisive forces are getting prominent day by day. Undercover ones like congress are more dangerous than obvious one. It is our choice to go blind on them by supporting them or to reveal the reality even at a small level.
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